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July 2009 
Being Offensive (Part II)
Posted on Jul 2nd, 2008
by 
michaelsits
michaelsits
Then one of her friends sat down and joined us. She is a Russian woman here in the states for the past year. Soon after, she left and the Russian woman and I started doing breathing, meditation and some hands–on Reiki. She was able to connect with her Higher Self and able to receive some discernment and awareness on who she is. Some of the things she was able to clarify was her inner strength and courage, and that she is more willing to help others than herself.
After about 20-30 minutes, we began to have casual conversation about religion, spirituality, discernment and the belly. OK, maybe not very casual, but more so than Reiki. She then asked since I have been on the road for several months, “How do you decide or know where or when to go or stay?”
I shared with her, “Part of it is spiritual discernment, and I enjoy being at universities and beaches too.”
She asked, “What is it about beaches that you like so much?” in her Russian accent.
“Sand, sun, water, salt, volleyball and bikinis” I answered easily.
It was the last word, bikinis that offended her. Her face became contorted and stressed across her forehead. She asked me, ”What do you like so much about bikinis?”
I knew I should just shut up, I knew it. “I like the bodies inside the bikinis.”
Her gaze was forceful and direct. She hesitated to gather herself, then asked in a voice trying hard not to show disapproval, “You mean like the woman inside or just objectifying her body?”
Shut up. Say nothing! “Both, sometime it is the woman inside, sometimes just the body that the bikini displays and sometimes a combination of both.”
This is a great example of the challenges of self-awareness and honesty while possessing superficial and divisive feelings that others take as personal attacks and/or disrespect. I knew that sharing that I appreciate the woman in the body and just the body regardless of the woman inside would produce negative responses from her. She looked annoyed and irritated and eventually stated being so.
The thing is that I am aware that this is an aspect of me I am working on but still have miles to go before reaching a place of more balance. I feel sad when I acknowledge that I am doing this and how it is hurtful to women. I usually shrink in these kinds of conversations and this one was no exception. The trust and connection we had is now broken. Two days later, the trust and connection are even less than while right in the middle of it.
How to go from Reiki to offensive in less than ten days, or one hour.
Offense #1.
After about 20-30 minutes, we began to have casual conversation about religion, spirituality, discernment and the belly. OK, maybe not very casual, but more so than Reiki. She then asked since I have been on the road for several months, “How do you decide or know where or when to go or stay?”
I shared with her, “Part of it is spiritual discernment, and I enjoy being at universities and beaches too.”
She asked, “What is it about beaches that you like so much?” in her Russian accent.
“Sand, sun, water, salt, volleyball and bikinis” I answered easily.
It was the last word, bikinis that offended her. Her face became contorted and stressed across her forehead. She asked me, ”What do you like so much about bikinis?”
I knew I should just shut up, I knew it. “I like the bodies inside the bikinis.”
Her gaze was forceful and direct. She hesitated to gather herself, then asked in a voice trying hard not to show disapproval, “You mean like the woman inside or just objectifying her body?”
Shut up. Say nothing! “Both, sometime it is the woman inside, sometimes just the body that the bikini displays and sometimes a combination of both.”
This is a great example of the challenges of self-awareness and honesty while possessing superficial and divisive feelings that others take as personal attacks and/or disrespect. I knew that sharing that I appreciate the woman in the body and just the body regardless of the woman inside would produce negative responses from her. She looked annoyed and irritated and eventually stated being so.
The thing is that I am aware that this is an aspect of me I am working on but still have miles to go before reaching a place of more balance. I feel sad when I acknowledge that I am doing this and how it is hurtful to women. I usually shrink in these kinds of conversations and this one was no exception. The trust and connection we had is now broken. Two days later, the trust and connection are even less than while right in the middle of it.
How to go from Reiki to offensive in less than ten days, or one hour.
Offense #1.
Access: Public
sad… it has taken me a long road to appreciate men as you are, but i do, and it's so much easier now to talk about these things without knee jerk reflexes… sometimes anyway lol i admit recently melting down with my friend when i thought he was being sexist and insensitive. but why shouldn't you unabashedly enjoy bikinis and women's sweet and sexy bodies? women are so beautiful and desirable… even women, straight women like me, know that…
It is interesting how women spend so much time, effort and money on their appearance and find admiring it offensive.
It is not that i do not get why, i do, there is just a contradiction there. My hope is that in time feminists will learn the same tolerance that they expect fro others. this is true for any activist, not just feminists. I realize posting this in a comment on my blog will produce some distance between me and some folks. I would say the same thing about religion, race, sexuality, politics, finances, social class. It is time we all honor what we expect form others and accept that we are all human, therefore, flawed at best. I would like to be less of a gawker and ASSUME that someday i will, if for no other reason than y declining vision with age. But until then, i am michael. michael=human.I guess i should duck from the first tomato being thrown at me. I knew i should not have worn a white shirt today.
The basic block is for me the cult if spiritual , political and sexual correctness. There should be more opnenness, humor and liberal attitude.
There is nothing wrong with ANYTHING in Sex. only Behavior, exploitation and non consensual habits are worth to be critidized.
But deep primal impulses are never in themselves bad or good.
Trust is layered too. Radical trust and mutual respect on every level includes for me the freedom to be radical honest in sexuality too.Too much of lilly white aproaches …lots to learned for men AND women here to establish new dynamics of masculine and feminine in us and between us.
michael i agree with you 100%. albert knows well that European attitudes are very very different. Even Canadians are not quite as uptight and obsessed as Americans, especially here in Quebec where we have a more European joie de vivre approach to life, love, appearance and sex.
Boy, you need to get yourself a girlfriend! There's always so much sex talk and sexual longing in your blogs, it is disturbing. I mean, not the talk or the longing but the constant mention of it. I don't mean to judge you, I can just say how I feel when reading your blogs. You seem rather obsessed with women and the different types that are around. But no matter how much you praise their intelligence, their strength etc. eventually it always comes down to sexual lust you feel for them. I know it is a masculine trait and I can live with it very well and hell, I certainly appreciate hot and sexy young men, too. I think what I find disturbing about it is the fact that you mention it in blogs about a spiritual journey. I guess it's just my own ignorance to assume that spiritual journeys and a superficial outlook on women don't go together in a man's world. :) I guess I always assumed the need to express masculinity and sexual desire and “readiness” ceased or at least decreased after adolescence.
Great conversation everybody. I appreciate the honesty and willingness to share your particular perspective.Albert-thank you! I have more to say but for the minute, thank you.Jenny- Glad you felt comfortable enough to say what was on your mind. I have wondered about that same thing, the sexual desire after adolescence and if it is supposed to “wear-off” or do folks just not talk about because of fear of public ridicule.Peacemichael
Oh, I sure hope that it doesn't wear off after adolescence!!!! That would be sad. :)) I always assumed that men just didn't feel the need to express it openly any more (while women are getting keener the older they get, it sometimes seems). I always thought that (men) expressing sexual desire was part of growing up and growing used to sex and a fulfilled sex life (and in younger years it must often have been wishful thinking, too). And, of course, to boast with one's manhood. But maybe I was wrong here.
sexual desire is a healthy part of being human, and of course men experience it very much :) I think men are often afraid of being as open about it as Michael for fear of the way women often respond negatively, as both the blogs and your comment, Jenny, illustrate perfectly. And it doesn't change just because one is in a relationship. if anything, being in a relationship can bring it up more, right? :) at least, that's my experience.
What I really enjoy is not only Michael's openness and honesty, but that he understands that coming to terms with his longings is a part of his spiritual journey. Because our spiritual journey includes our sexuality. It's sad that there is often compartmentalisation, as if sex is over here in one corner and spirituality there. We are sexual beings, so sexuality affects absolutely everything including our spirituality.
I can especially appreciate this in terms of the Reiki Michael and others do, because sexual energy is such a powerful one moving in the body of the person being reikied.
Jenny, I know older men who are very comfortable talking about their longings, and I think that's a good thing too. I see maturity and moving forward here, not staying stuck.
at the same time, some guys are quite immature about their desires, and don't talk about it but act out in different ways. that's unfortunate.
As Michael said, great discussion! we all learn from each other when we talk openly, don't we?
Funny how this blog, which is not about sex but respect and community from my perspective has facilitated this discussion.
many interesting points shared and we do learn from each other and our experiences.
i appreciate the thoughts on the compartmentlization of sex and spirituality. I think it is more prevalent with finances than sex. Folks look up items in consume reports before they look it up in meditation. put more stock in retirement funds than the Divine Presence, especially since there are no garenttee we will be here when we retire and does the Divine Presence retire when we retire? If not, then why the focus and worry?
The same is true for picking partners i think. how many folks make choices for partners based on discernment through meditation? primal compatibility? or is it more about style, fashion, musical interests, lifestyles, status, social class, race, religion, approval, economy, education,fear of loneliness, etc.? where is the Divine in any of that stuff?
I am not Ok with objectification of women are anything (money, nature, social justice, glamour, social class, race, status, etc) but i am even less supportive of “correctness”, which to me is just lying. I know of no tradition that states that lying helps one reach enlightenment. respect, yes, dishonesty, i do not think so. i am where i am in my development, it is not an excuse nor license, just the truth. Would you rather i had lied to that young lady?
great stuff! peace, michael
Micheal, Are you asking me that? No, I certainly wouldn't you rather lied to that woman (or anyone else). I appreciate your honesty. I just thought that the constant mention of lust in connection with certain women was a sign of immaturity. But maybe I'm wrong here. In my generation, we talk about sex a lot. So why shouldn't you. Still, the mention of sex and lust, often quite graphic, throughout your blogs has disturbed me. It's a personal feeling that I unfortunately can't do anything about.
Maybe you're right, Nicole, that many men are afraid to express their desires for fear of rejection. But the reason I reacted negatively is that I know a lot of men who aren't afraid to express their desires and it just gets old. Maybe a lot of women react negatively because they're exposed to men's longings a lot and while some, like you, can take and appreciate it, others can't and find it offensive. I think I am somewhere in the middle and as I said, I'll try not to be judgmental.
Still learning…
no reason to get defensive Jenny. you are allowed to express yourself and thoughts just as much as me.Question: if a woman wrote all the same things i did/do, would it feel like immaturity or offensive?
I am not getting defensive, I tried to explain how I felt. Because I like to speak my mind, too.
If a woman constantly mentioned graphic details about their sexual longing I would probably think she was slutty. But I wouldn't feel offended (unless maybe she was talking about women) and I definitely wouldn't take it as immaturity.
But these are just personal feelings. I won't lie here, I have (and sometimes still do) objectified men and “used” them, too, which is maybe even worse than just expressing certain desires. But I don't feel bad about it because I know a lot of men would do the same.
Funny part is that i have sex only with women i thought i was gong to spend the rest of my life with. i do not have indiscriminite sex. I just have an active “inner slut” that i feed maybe too often…
Why the difference in how you react to a women and her feelings and desires and a mans feelings and desires? Are we not equal and deserve an equal opportunity to feel and experience sexuality without being judges as slut or saint? Why is one immature the other not? Or disrespectful? Can one person actually “use” another person? Didn't they agree to the activity and if they did, aren't both parties equally “using” and enjoying each other?
the discussion continues…
If women talked about their sexual desire for men repeatedly, I wouldn't care all that much or feel offended because it doesn't affect me personally (plus I hardly ever hear it). As I said, if they objectified women, I might react differently.
And yes, one person can use another if intentions and wishes as to where the sex will lead aren't clear.
Michael,
I don't know a woman in this world who doesn't appreciate a nice compliment. But there is a HUGE difference between “you have a beautiful body” and “I like your ass”.
Just my 2 cents.
well put Rose Mary. With inflation and fair trade, i think opinion are now worth 4.5 cents with inflation all. six cents if organic and natural. Seven cents if local. Eight cents if attached to a man or woman with “a beautiful body”. But if only because they have ” a nice ass”, the opinion then is worth a penny, which we know is worth less than one cent today.
Does this all change if you actually like the person? the truth be told, for all the thoughts that run around in my head, the inly women i am really attracted to are smart, strong, independent and creative. For me, physical appearance is what opens the door to me noticing them. It is not enough for me to stay interested without the other stuff. And of course they have to be fun, funny and be interested in knowing themself and dong their part in this world. But what do i know, i am just a guy from jersey living in virginia about to move to korea for a year?
when are you moving? that will be quite an adventure!
wow, I bet you never expected to get into such a discussion on this blog eh Michael?
I do find it interesting what Jenny was saying about how she felt more affected by your comments as a man that she would if a woman said them. Because I am the same. Except I am affected differently. I have noticed that I am more aware of what men say than what women say, unless it's a close friend of mine who is the women, and so I tend to be more responsive.
But I don't respond to you or anyone else with - oh, he's immature or obsessed about sex. I just find it interesting, and want to explore more why you feel the way you feel. As we have been doing for the past months with your blogs, but not usually with so much more company. :) See how popular your blogs are becoming! A Gaia celebrity.
Jenny, I love the way you stayed engaged with the discussion even when it got more and more challenging. It's one of the things I really enjoy about you, girl. You go! Hugs
About using - yes, I agree with you, one person can use another if he or she is not spelling out where it's going. Some can be very calculating, wanting sex but being vague about intentions so the other believes it is love or commitment, and is just being manipulated and led astray. My philosophy professor Joe said many years ago “We're meant to love people and use things. Sometimes we get it backward” I will never forget that. Too often I see people loving things and using people. That can be so soul-deadening.
I hear you too, dear Jenny, about men being too bold talking about sex. Again, my experience is different from yours, in that I only talk to my friends about these things so don't experience it as wearisome or intrusive, but I can totally appreciate that for a beautiful woman like you who meet many many men, you must get all kinds of stuff all the time, and it must get boring.
Now, turning to Rose Mary, yes, I would respond differently to those two comments by a stranger. But not necessarily negatively to the second. Depends on the context. From the “right” stranger or the “right” friend it could be a real turn-on - also depending on how I am in my own body at that time of course because we are not always susceptible sexually, but also at some times for different reasons we are hyper sensitive and reactive.
I think, Michael, you are quite typical in being triggered by physical appearance. A lot of guys are very visual that way. I respect the fact that the spiritual is so important in terms of staying interested and that you don't engage in casual sex, because neither do I. I have had very few sexual partners in my life and have no interest in just getting it on with someone just because he's hot or interested in me.
Nicole, i just so appreciate your willingness to share your ideas and experience! I was thinking last night while bike riding that it is possible that most college sophmores have had more sexual partners than me. Maybe not more actual experiences but partners. this is partially due to differing generational norms and partially being an ugly kid. I feel sometimes that i missed on on some stuff by not ever having a true one night stand. Maybe i am still wondering what that would be like, sex for sex sake with no connection. There is a part of me that gets all excited at the idea but most of me just cringes. I have put myself in some situations lately that have pushed my boundaries beyond my comfort level, and have done predominantly OK but have made some energetic choices i would make differently if given the same circumstances. I don't enjoy playing mind games but i can baited in when not paying attention. And, i am very sensitive to sexual energies and not very adept at denying their force and ability to manipulate and seduce me.
of course! slapping forehead. the reiki! it must really really increase your sensitivity. yikes… so it's even more important to learn how not to be manipulated. quite a challenge.
I have never felt sexual energy when performing Reiki so I'm finding this discussion very interesting. My husband asks for Reiki quite frequently and my husband turns me on in ways that we won't even discuss here (wink) - but even with him, it's just a feeling of deep love, never ever sexual or lustful. He gets turned on by practically anything I do - again, except Reiki. To be perfectly honest, I have been turned off by your connection with Reiki and sexual energy, Michael. It scares me for the young women you are having sessions with. You know and I know that touching genitals or even doing a session while naked isn't exactly accepted in the reiki practice. I think that Jenny has feelings that may come up for other women when reading your blogs but they just didn't' have the guts to say something.
I've read Part I, II, & III and what I found interesting was that you started off with the young, naked, innocent girl and how she wasn't put off before going into further discussion about how you did offend two women. It was almost as though you were showing how wonderful and innocent you were first.
Why a man of your age is always surrounded by nubile twenty-somethings also bothers me. Are these women trusting you because of your age & spiritual air? Are you sure that you aren't using your spirituality for your own benefit of saying what you want, exploring what you want, doing what you want with young bodies?
I like you and appreciate your honesty - but sometimes I do get creeped out too. I have no problem with open and honest communication about sex or anything else. I just wonder - sometimes - if you are being as open with yourself as you may think you are being.
I had actually quit reading your work on D.D. because I couldn't comment from a personal point of view there and didn't feel it was the place to air my uncomfortable feelings … then somehow your title on this one caught my eye and I had to read it for some reason. I think I was hoping that you were noticing something about yourself but instead found the same thing that I'm always finding with your writing.
As for your two offending comments - #1 seemed perfectly normal, especially for the society in which we live. #2 -Why did you repeat the joke if you already knew it was offending the young lady involved. To me, that was “pushing buttons”, not opening up communication. The joke itself was, again, normal in our society. Humor is wonderful. But I wonder - do you think that it could possibly be mean spirited? I mean, I wouldn't expect someone on a spiritual journey of the depths you seem to be going to utter such a statement, not even in jest.
I hope, truly, that I haven't offended you, Michael and am quite curious to hear your reply.
With Love, Ayla
Thanks Ayla for taking the risk and sharing all that you did, no offense taken. I can feel that it is shared with both love and respect for me, and concern for Reiki.
I have reflected on many of the points you bring up. Some i have clarity in others, still in process. Before i get too far with me, i want to share that i am aware that some women get turned off by what i write for the reasons you and jenny stated. Although this bothers me personally, it is not what and why i write. I write because i need to write, i post because i need to share with others, feedback is one of the hopes. I am in process like everybody else. I have much to learn and depend on others to help me see my blindspots.
i know that my joking is not mean-spirited. I don't feel the need to go further with that since i feel clear there. everything else i am less clear.
I have known many Reiki practitioners,as i am sure you have as well. we have had many conversations about the exchanges of energy, sexual being one of them. We always have to be mindful of getting mixed up with any other kinds of energies that are not Reiki or conducive to healing. I would question whether you or anyone that moves into someone's energy field with Reiki or just sharing coffee in a cafe with a friend that there is not an energetic exchange of energy, sexual being one of them. i guess i wonder of you are just not aware of it… We all have different energy training and sensitivities. I am not speaking about the training we get from books and Reiki Masters, i mean the Inner training that we get through practice an meditation.
Ayla, i have a lot of faith in Reiki, much less so in myself, if that makes sense. I question what my motives are regularly and depending on the situation, i try my best to do the right thing. meaning, there are times when i begin a process for the right reasons and inspired through Reiki and end up somewhere different. I check regularly why i am working with certain people, and what are we working on. Do i BS myself from time to time, no doubt. is this one of those areas, most definitely. Does this mean that they are not getting what they need, i still think they are getting exactly what they need (in spite of myself). The fact that you and jenny and somebody else questioned this recently leads me to believe i need to dig a little deeper and do some inner research, which is good for me but not comfortable.
Why am i surrounded by young women? Great question! Certainly there are some logistical reasons that don't seem relevant here but personal and sprirtual ones as well. After working with teens as a counselor for the last fifteen years, my demographic is starting to shift more towards young adults. Why this is the case, i do not know yet. It is not just with females, males as well. I have ben staying in a home for the last few weeks with two gay males and a bisexual female all in their early twenties. Although hard for me to relate to their lifestyles and maturity, it is where i have been “sent” regardless of what feels good to me. i don't really think we get a vote with whom and when we work with folks. from being here, one by one each of their friends have asked for Reiki, in most cases i have accepted their request with some exception with those doing lots of drugs. i only write about the experiences that stick with me afterwards. Typically they have either pushed my boundaries or buttons or witnessed something really powerful. just like with Reiki, i do not sit and decode what i am writing about, it just comes out for me to learn from, and maybe benefit others as well. has there been times afterwards i felt like i crossed a boundary even if they were the one who facilitated it, YES! Does it mean i should have done something different, i am not as clear of that, even if i feel weird about it later. Ayla, i think it is important to allow perceived boundaries and limits to be lofted at times when the situation calls fro something deeper. Again, does this mean i have done the right thing every time, of course not. I am not defending for the sake od f defending, i think there is something here for all of us to earn and grow from. Why else would we be having this discussion?
There have been some males on DD and outside of DD that have written me and shared their similar experiences and how they dealt with it but were afraid to openly as to awkward negative attention from women. there actually have been some women have done the same thing. maybe it is time we start talking about this stuff is folks become more aware of energetic exchanges that they may not see as it for what it is. Again, that does not mean i have not made choices i am concerned about. I felt really awkward doing Reiki naked on a naked woman, especially a young one. It is not what i was taught, nor what fits into my comfort zone. i would not wrote about it if it was what felt normal or regular to me, only if it is something that catches my attention. the same with placing hands on genitals, male or female, i have done that about four or five times since beginning my journey with Reiki in 1995. I think every case the person asked or just took my hands and placed them there, i have not ever initiated this and would not!
One more point since i am tired of typing and this doesn't have spell check which for me is a problem since i can't type. I have been told time and time again by young women that they do this work with me because they trust me and can work on issues related to physical touch with men without having sex brought into the picture. They get to just be and experience without the worry of what is “he” going to do. It is a safe space for them and that is important to me. ewe live in a sexually charged world now and young women do not get positive non-sexual touch from males often, or at all.i may now have to question whether that is true or not. when enough people think you are a duck, chances are you are a duck. trust and intuition have always been my strengths as a counselor and Reiki practitioner. my fear is that i will begin to doubt what has been the foundation of my work. Not bad thing, just a thing to explore. i will say however that being around so many college students lately is exhausting due to the amount of drama, drugs and sexual activity and energy that is part of their environment. Since i don't do drugs, drink, have sex without love, or drama, i am worn out! Besides, i miss gown-up minds and conversion.
i again want to thank you for your courage and willingness to share your concerns for other and me, i encourage you to do so whenever you feel something out of sync Ayla. i respect you and who you are.Peace, michael
Thank you for your deep and thoughtful response, Michael. I'm so glad that I didn't offend you. I hope you don't begin to doubt the foundation of your work, while still hoping that you will continue to explore. We are all on this journey together, reiki or not.
I know why you write and I hope that you keep your writings to look back on later. My journals have been a source of so much self-knowledge. I have often went back and read what I wrote and said “Oh - aha!” and sometimes “duh!” ;0) I love it that you write with so much openness and was struck by your saying that you write about what sticks out for you. It's one of the things I noticed that concerned me as well ~ you make bare mention of your sessions with males & really seem to lean about sharing with females. Perhaps that is where I went wrong with my thinking. Perhaps that is the place that you need to be for further understanding and to move forward.
I imagine that it is exhausting for you to be in that environment. I have 20, 23, & 25 year old sons and they can exhaust me too. So much drama! Of course, they have nothing on my 13 year old daughter - nothing! LOL!
Thank you again for your response. I am more appreciative than you will probably ever know. Much Love & Peace, Ayla
P.S. There is a spell check in the toolbox for these threads - see it up there? ABC
P.S.S. Safe travels to Korea. I'm so excited to hear about your adventure.
Spell Check! how about it! i wonder what else is around here that i am clueless about?
thanks, i am really excited to be going. Kind of funny to be making a one year commitment after almost five months of predominantly traveling.
Very interesting conversation. And very interesting point, Ayla, as well as an interesting explanation, Michael.
I had meant to go back to spirituality and sexuality as well after a remark Nicole made how they belong together. I have to admit that I don't know anything about Reiki and I also have to admit that I haven't read the first part to your blog but only the very piece above. So when I left my first comment it was really just a feeling I got browsing through (some of) your blogs as you wrote them and an immediate reaction to the discussion that had started.
But when I said: “I guess it's just my own ignorance to assume that spiritual journeys and a superficial outlook on women don't go together in a man's world. :)” The stress was on superficial outlook, I didn't say spirituality and sexuality don't go together. I have the feeling that was misunderstood.
Also, just to explain my reaction once more to you, I'm not as saint-like as you guys. :))) I have had many sexual partners over the years, have had loads and loads of meaningless sex, I have been objectified and used just as much as I have objectified and used. So I was thinking that maybe that has made me more sensitive and more susceptible. So where you are just “innocently” expressing how you feel, I suspect superficiality.
Btw: No, Nicole, I don't “meet many many men”. *lol* I'm sure I don't meet more people of the opposite sex than the other beautiful people here on Gaia. :))) But maybe I meet more immature and blunt men due to the fact that I still go out partying a lot (esp. with 20-30 year-olds) and there it's mostly about booze and sex. And yes, it's then that I get exposed to a lot of really bad pick-up-lines and sometimes expressions of sexual desire that I find offensive.
Jenny, if no one has told you lately, you are amazing! I am so glad you opened your mouth, OK, keyboard and shared what you did. you facilitated an excellent conversation that i have learned about me and y'all without ever getting dressed. Thank you all for helping me see what i can't always see (or don't want to).Now about sex…
Thank you, Michael, for making this discussion possible and for hanging in. It has also taught me quite a bit about myself and made me think about why I got irritated by your blogs sometimes.
So I would like to say thanks to all who took part in this discussion, too. I appreciate your openness very much, it has as helped me to also open up (and to reflect).
Hi Jenny, well, I can't speak for Michael but I don't see myself as a saint, very far from it. You and I are just different in some respects. Different choices. I don't do casual sex, it doesn't interest me.
And I guess I meant you meet a lot of men relative to me (everything is relative!) because the circles in which i move mean that the men i know, except on Gaia, are almost all either parents of my students at the learning centre, so professionally distant, or people I see at church who are usually married so again there is a careful distance. So, when I think of your life, it “looks” like you meet a lot of guys, and as you said, they can be too forward, which must be a pain for you.
Damn these emails! It's so easy to be misunderstood even when we are trying our best to be caring and supportive. Thanks, too, for hanging in there and for all the opening up and reflecting you do. Hugs.
Michael, it's great that you are so open and non-defensive. That you seek to find the truth about yourself and others. I have come to understand much more not only about myself and my own attitudes but also about you through your fearless honesty in these exchanges. Kudos!
Saint? No not me. I just have a distinction between what i think about and what i act on related to sex. Unfortunately, the gap between them is getting greater and greater. Maybe you are correct jenny in saying that i need to get a girlfriend..
Nicole, casual sex doesn't interest me either. But it happens sometimes though. Used to happen a lot even. That's life.
Michael, yes, maybe you should. What I actually thought of first commenting was “get a girlfriend or visit a ho'” - I didn't mean to insult you but what I initially thought and have been thinking for a while now is that maybe you just need to relieve yourself sexually, you know. I understand that you are looking for the deeper love but if you maybe engaged in casual sex or even paid for it, the pressure might get less and you could be more relaxed around beautiful women. It might actually help you be relaxed enough to find 'the one', too, who knows?! And if you find her, you can have as much 'meaningful sex' as you like. :)))
I got that Jenny. you have not been the first person to offer that as an option to me. Something to consider.
Oh dear. Oh. ha. I'm giggling now. Jenny, you're funny except I'm not sure if you meant to be funny. Oh, my. Ha. I'm speechless for once. Michael, your calm response made me laugh too and I'm not even sure why I'm laughing. Nervous giggles, I guess. Wow.
Making lots of good comments here, aren't I?
Okay.
Jenny ~ I think that casual sex happens more for young people than us older folks. I certainly experienced it in my younger years. Now that I'm an old granny (just had my first grandchild June 16th, welcome Jimmy) of 45 -very, very soon to be 46 - well it just isn't as appealing. I think that's true of many 35 +'ers. Maybe even most. I also think that many of us experienced the wilder, younger days and can understand that you may have casual sex sometimes even if you would prefer to be in a loving relationship. Too many drinks, loneliness, and even just because you need a warm body beside you.
I'm still a little flummoxed by the above so I'll sign out for now - Love, Ayla
Well, it was exactly because I had expected reactions like Ayla's here on Gaia that I didn't initially write what I suggested above.
Jenny, i did not react that way and did take you seriously and felt you meant it with my interests at heart.
I know, Michael. And I'm sure you understood that I didn't mean to insult or ridicule you. Of course, I wouldn't really say “Come on go and have random sex” or “Go and buy sex”, I know you understood that it was just a train of thought and its immediate gut feeling reaction. After our very open and blunt discussion I knew I could write it without offending you.
I just read this blog and all the comments, and wanted to thank the participants, as I found the interchange very rewarding and thought-provoking ! As we all are, I myself am a creature in transition and as a young man (can I still say that at 38 ??;) and find my ever-changing perspective on the opposite sex, my own gender , sex and romantic relationships to be yet another aspect of this organic evolution we all go through….thanks again !
Patrick, thank you! It has been an interesting series of comments and dialogue. This is not one of the blogs that i feel the strongest about but somehow this conversation has birthed from it. In fact, i think the comments are stronger than the blog itself. Glad you stopped by.
Oh, Jenny, I didn't mean to insult you either. It's just the way you said it ” … or visit a ho” - c'mon! A little sense of humor please, it never hurts. Well, at least in my neck of the woods. Anyway, sorry that I offended you. I certainly didn't mean to.
And the learning continues…
Interesting post and discussion. It is late and I'm a bit sleepy so I have not read all of the comments carefully but I thought I would just share my feelings.
I don't get upset when my male friends appreciate a nice looking woman (unless perhaps they're appreciating a plastic surgeon's work more than an actual female form!).
When I'm on the beach I find myself admiring both women & men's bodies. I find the human form to be so beautiful and admittedly arousing. I cannot get upset by someone casually watching or admitting to finding something attractive about a lovely lady in a bikini or in a handsome man strolling the beach in shorts. I think it is natural for us to find beauty and sexual attraction in the human form. I also do not find it offensive to admit to one another that we find these things beautiful to one another, only honest.
Thank you Erika fro sharing and dropping by. The conversation has been fun and enlightening for me. glad to hear that you do not get offended, although that does not mean i do not have to be more mindful then i am. that is the main thing i am taking from this discussion is that i need to pay attention better to my thoughts, actions and how they effect others, and myself for that matter. Peace, michael
I think no one feels offended by someone else's realizing beauty. It's really a matter of how it's expressed (and in which context).
However, I guess I have contributed my share to the conversation… I still feel that not all of you truly understood what I meant to say (not including you, Michael!)… maybe my comments have been confusing. I'll try to stay out of this discussion now though. Thanks again for sharing and listening and speaking your minds - I really enjoyed this one!
Love y'all.
dearest one, i hope i have understood you, and not offended you. i am listening, and hearing you and you know i love you as one of my cherished Gaia friends. i hope you will feel free to be in this discussion or any other if that feels right for you, without worrying about how people respond. as i said, damn these emails! we say things without intending offense and misunderstanding but they so easily occur.
michael, your openness to all humbles and inspires me.